Novruz Mammadov: “The process of opening the Turkish-Armenian borders became positive accelerator in the solution to Nagorno Karabakh conflict”
Chief of the International Relations Department of the Presidential Administration Novruz Mammadov gives an interview to some news agencies of Azerbaijan.
22:00 / 04.12.2009 According to APA, the department chief spoke about the negotiation process over the Nagorno Karabakh conflict, meetings between the presidents and foreign ministers and etc.
- How do you see development of Munich meeting between the Azerbaijani and Armenian presidents and Athens meeting between the foreign ministers?
- Munich was the sixth meeting this year between the presidents of Azerbaijan and Armenia toward the solution to Nagorno Karabakh conflict. This statistics shows how the negotiation process was intensified. Generally, Azerbaijani president has demonstrated very concrete and principal position since the beginning of 2009 and directed the attention of international community, particularly the leading countries such as US, Russia and France and others, as well as international organizations to the importance of the solution to the conflict. This was very important process. Certain process took place in the region and the president has showed very concrete position on that since the beginning of the year. The president expressed his position during the different contacts and meetings that it is time to solve this conflict and it is very urgent and actual and has great significance for the region. This issue was raised at the meetings with the US President, Secretary of State and other officials, at the different meetings with the Russian leadership, during the correspondence with the French leader. The issue became urgent and intensified the negotiations. At the same time, the process of opening the Turkish-Armenian borders became positive accelerator in the solution to Nagorno Karabakh conflict. If the world community, powerful countries attach great attention to the South Caucasus and make efforts for stability and security in this region, first issue to be addressed here is the solution to Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. The first issue is that. Then let them to solve other issues second and third. Azerbaijani president made very strong statements concerning the solution to the conflict and character of the talks in this period, particularly in recent time. I think all these have an impact on the negotiation process. Some statements alarmed the Armenian leadership and on the other hand attracted the attention of world leaders and leading countries to this issue. From this view, comments made at the OSCE foreign ministers’ meeting mean that there is a positive dynamic in the negotiation process. There were other different statements too. Even Foreign Minister of France Bernard Kouchner said under the present circumstances a framework agreement might be signed. This is a very optimistic statement. I think while making this statement he analyzed all processes thoroughly and grounded his position from his point of view. I approach such statements a little carefully, as I always observe hypocritical, insidious position of Armenian leaders, have seen in the negotiations held within 10-15 years, know that they are not principled in their positions, express a certain position in one meeting and backtrack on their position in another meeting. Azerbaijani President shows all his efforts, takes all steps for the solution to the conflict. It has always been so and is continuing. But I want to point out two important factors as the recent moment of the negotiations carried out with Armenia within a year. First, the main fact attracting attention in these processes is that Obama, Clinton, Medvedev, Lavrov, Sarkozy, Kouchner have issued statements. Second, at the background of these processes Armenian leaders once more realized that this conflict must be solved sooner or later and the solution to the conflict plays a very big role in their future. This conflict is a serious obstacle to most of their plans. This obstacle has always been, and if they did not realize it, this is their tragedy. They should have realized it when Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan project was realized. But in the last moment they saw that this problem impedes the opening that they want to realize even with the help of the world. Turkish Prime Minister has today said that he will tell the Americans if they want all the problems in the region solved, opening to be realized normally, first of all Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict over Nagorno Karabakh should be solved. I think the solution to Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict over Nagorno Karabakh will be one of the main themes of discussions between Turkish Prime Minister and the U.S. President. In general, speaking of the recent negotiations, the Athens meeting was as if a final, it demonstrated a common position. Now the continuation of the positive process is one of the urgent issues.
- The statement issued in Athens was negatively assessed by the Armenian opposition. They accuse Armenian leadership of betrayal. How does this document differ from the previous ones?
- Actually, this statement does not differ much from the previous ones. Simply, the position of the Armenian leadership is not stable. The situation in Armenia is complicated. There is an episode in tales: The ogre has a glass, there is a bird in it and they say the bird will fly away as soon as it is opened. And this is the end of the ogre’s life. This is the same for Armenian leaders: no matter who is leading the country, the solution to the conflict plays the role of a bird for them. If the conflict is solved, each of them will become an ordinary person, maybe the person hated by most in the society. That’s why they are very careful. There are circles in the Armenian society that begin to accuse their leaders of betrayal, when a new step is taken. If the Armenian leaders had been wise enough, had not created this problem early in the 90s, or those who backed them had told that it would not be favorable for them, then maybe Armenia would have profited 5, 10, or even 15 times more. The problems in economy, finance, security, and in terms of the relations with Turkey would have been solved. The Armenians comment on the self-determination as they want and regard it as the establishment of a separate state. Whereas the self-determination may be solved in various variants and this has been widely spread in the world. In Russia tens of nations achieved self-determination within the framework of the Russian Federation. We can give tens of examples in other states, too.
Indeed the fortune of Armenians living in Karabakh was solved before the collapse of USSR. Simply the Armenians didn’t understand that. If they understood that, they would provide Nagorno Karabakh with large autonomy and continue to live in other cities and regions of Azerbaijan. No one had such opportunities they had in Baku in that time. They would reach everything with support of their patrons, Diaspora and lobby and achieve great opportunities. But now they lost all that. They harmed Armenian state and people. They are in difficult situation, but didn’t want to acknowledge that. Leading countries are making efforts to save them now. It was possible to show financial support to them earlier, but now during then financial crisis it became difficult. Today 10-150 million dollars is quite enough normal for any country. Therefore all over the world show their position to pull out Armenia from this situation. It needs to open borders with Turkey to save Armenia. There are two million people in Armenia who can reach normal life with Turkey’s support. There is no principle for them, they are acting faithless. According to their principles, Armenians shouldn’t agree with that, but as you see, what steps they are doing and what methods they are using. There is no sense to seek faith and principles in the Armenian society. Their leadership, political parties and different circles make ridiculous offers to argue their position. It needs to accept it as political show.
- Armenian opposition concerns about the agreement on solution of Nagorno Karabakh status within the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Is there such agreement?
- One of the main issues in the negotiation process, we are working for, is to make Armenia and its leadership confidence in such solution of the problem. The co-chairs and all countries over the world agree with this idea. Of course, there are some points in this issue. Leaders of the powerful countries, international organizations state that they recognize territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. The negotiations are going on to make Armenia to leave its absurd claims. Azerbaijan makes efforts and states that we are neighbor countries, let agree on the most wise, most right solution, to give large autonomy to Nagorno Karabakh within the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Madrid principles show that Armenian community of Nagorno Karabakh can form its fortune within the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and together with the Azerbaijani community living there and negotiations are going on that. Armenians are agreeing with that but then one-two months later changing their position, because there is no stable government in Armenia relying on the people’s power. We saw that in Armenia for many times. Ter-Petrosyan was toppled from the power for simple statement in 1997-98, then Kocharyan came, there were some talks about a little step, they committed massacre at the parliament and they immediately stopped the talks trying to show that it could happen with you too and therefore you should make step back. There are many intrigues among them. Their government was not elected by the people and therefore they are not confident with themselves. Therefore every statement is very strong challenge for them.
- Will positive dynamic be developed next year?
- Positive dynamic should be developed because the patience gives out. The co-chairs are working on that for more than 10-15 years. It is very unique format. There are many conflicts in the world, but still there was no such format. Representatives of three powerful countries are working, making efforts. It is right that their work didn’t give results yet. But it is impossible to endure so long. There should be a result. Today there is such situation in the South Caucasus that, like it or not, the countries interested in the solution of the problem should understand that. This conflict can never be considered as the second one. This is problem number one. The leading countries also should be astonished that why they attach so much attention to the Turkish-Armenian rapprochement. It creates question that Turkey and Armenia hold two-year secret talks in Switzerland while there is a serious conflict in the region and the leading countries are working to solve that: Why such peace-loving and neutral country like Switzerland doesn’t direct its efforts toward the solution of Nagorno Karabakh problem. We have to do so that the crises in the world would be only economic or financial. There shouldn’t be crisis of justice in the international relations, it shouldn’t be allowed. If the principle of justice is not fulfilled in the international relations it can lead to the serious crisis. The international law, its norms and principles were set to restore the justice. Therefore I think that the positive dynamic should be developed in 2010. It is necessary for Azerbaijan, Armenia, for the region, Russia and US.
- Will Armenian and Azerbaijani communities of Nagorno Karabakh join the negotiations? Armenian leadership declared that Nagorno Karabakh Armenians will join the negotiations.
- I observed it for many times and the president of Azerbaijan also noted that – Armenian leadership has a strange character. They chose political speculation as their profession and they are proud of it. Every word of the president or foreign minister is a duty, obligation. If the leader of any country says that he recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan, foreign policy of that country should make steps toward that. All countries made this statement on Azerbaijan, but unfortunately they don’t keep their words and don’t make necessary steps toward that. If it is so the conflict would be solved long ago. Armenian leadership uses this situation and saves several reserve options to find another argument to change its opinion if tomorrow something happens. There were many such cases in the negotiations. Today the co-chairs and OSCE accept that there are two parties in this process – Azerbaijan and Armenia. The conflict is between the two sides. In certain phase of the solution to the conflict – final phase- if the process is going toward the solution, both Azerbaijani and Armenian communities can join the negotiation process and participate in the determination of the status. This is our position and is in the force now. But this is like pretext for the Armenian leadership. I guess their position is not and can not be accepted seriously, because the format is that and the negotiations are going on in this format.
- What is difference between the peace and framework agreement?
- It is difficult to answer this question yet, not because I am not informed. This is a subject of the negotiations still. The framework agreement can include agreement around several basic principles to move the process ahead. The peace agreement is a final document which describes fundamental basic principles of the conflict solution, all technical, economic, environmental and other problems. The difference is in that. We directed our attention to the framework agreement to improve the process. There is a question about the agreement around the basic principles. Undoubtedly there should be certain guarantees in the peace agreement. It will be product of final phase.
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